There is a big diffrence between 425 compression and ore compression.

1 account could supply you with around 4 billion trit a week with only 1 hour play time max. You would simply buy in jita, ship it wiht red frog/push x and then use 3 charecters to build railguns. So basicly anyone could do it.

Now for compression you need 10 freighters to reduce the tiem it takes to haul ores, you cant outsource that part coz couriers dont go to POS. And even with 10 freighters you spend alot more then 1 hour hauling all that ****

There is an awful lot of grr-goon in this thread.

I am repeating my earlier, slightly off-topic, argument- I think the fundamental issue breaks down to nullsec being 100% reliant on high sec for the minerals they need. Compression itself works, and if high sec miners don't like math, they're going to refine their ores for a loss.

I would suggest that you actually go to nullsec and mine from a null belt before basing your argument on this statement. Belts in null are not at all like belts in highsec, and the low end roids pop in as little as one cycle. Additionally, these are still "top heavy", so we'd still have a surplus of high ends. So, no, you are incorrect.

The Bloodtears, probably the most experienced nullsec miners that I know, repeatedly assert that nullsec asteroid belts have minuscule amounts of ore. Check the Bloodtear Industry Report if you don't believe me.

Here is a link to the most recent Bloodtear Industry Report, and here is a link to a High Sec Industry Report.

Here is the only mention of regular belts. The entire point of mining in the belts is to never have to mine in belts again because they're awful

I mean, I get that you are trying to assert that without spurious evidence, that which would take weeks, if not months to collect, we can't argue a point. Fortunately for us, however, we can rely on the words of credible experts to not have to repeat this unnecessary work.

What are the compositions of these belts? Thanks in advance

Sorry, you're making the claim, you provide the data. That's how we're working isn't it? All you have is anectodes

Nullsec asteroid belts haven't been changed in at least four years, probably more. I can only speak to that which I've seen. Given that the Bloodtear guide is younger than that, I'm inclined to believe their assessment that nullsec asteroid belts, while containing a number of asteroids, contain very, very small quantities of ore inside those asteroids.

Nah. I trust the Bloodtears.

Yep, sure -- that is accurate. I trust you'll be exiting the conversation now -- cheers!

Have fun.

Here, I'll even offer a hint: Interceptor-class frigates, when fit properly, cannot be caught, making it laughably easy to travel to any nullsec system you want. I see your snide comment about magic, all-knowing intel channels and raise you actual game mechanics.

Use the orbit key to keep moving. Alternatively, find a belt that has no rats in it.

So my question is why do you big nullsec alliances need so much compressed ore from highsec when you have endless amounts of it in the systems you control?

You've got a pretty funny idea of how many belts any given nullsec dweller has access to.

Why don't you tell me -- right now, how many belts could I potentially mine?

This is the problem. The current null anoms provide so much m3 worth of high end ores that we are severely bottlenecked by low end minerals (mex). If we just "hire more miners" and continue to strip existing belts, "high end" ores will continue to plummet in price, and that's additional m3 that must be cycled before a new belt can be spawned. This is a fundamental problem with the nullsec anoms, which is why CCP has changed the ore comp multiple times on high end ores. They just need to flat out reduce the m3 of high end ores and replace it with low end m3 to balance out distribution.

It would take an incredible amount of man hours to locally source the mexallon for one super of any type. Meanwhile, we'd have a large enough surplus of zyd/mega to crash those prices below isogen levels. Then, mining in null would have such a low income per hour because of all the high end ores we'd have to cycle that it would be even worse of an actual profession in null.

That's 710 belts. Let's mine out, say, all the veldspar from all of these belts. That gives us 463,019,400 units of veldspar. Reprocessing all of this veldspar gives you 1,921,530,510 trit at (an impossible) 100% refine. Multiplying this by the best possible refine in nullsec (86.83%) and pretending refinery taxes don't exist, that is 1,668,464,942 trit for the entire output of all the veldspar. Now, let's triple that, because three variants of veldspar exist (and I'm too lazy to do them individually; this figure is a bit higher than reality.) That gives us 5,005,394,825 units of trit. Using http://eve-industry.org/calc/ to eyeball the cost of an avatar puts us at 3,745,571,923 tritanium, which means, if we ruthlessly exploit every scrap of trit in an asteroid belt that we have access to, we can build 1.74 titans a day.

However, we have dozens of titan producers. Plus, there are supercarriers, capital ships, and mass numbers of battleships that have to be produced. Suffice it to say -- asteroid belts cannot sate our needs. War in TYOOL 2014 requires more mineral resources than we can mine locally. This is simply the facts of life.

No one said compression was at fault -- the entire point of my OP post is to give it a shot in the arm to increase the ability for highsec to market its wares. This whole "just mine it yourselves" tangent that gets pulled out every time nullsec dares to agitate for its own good has remarkably little to do with the thread's purpose.

You're reaching. Considerably.

550 cycles of an XL belt will produce the same amount of veld as all 710 belts in the region.

Mining in actual belts in nullsec is much worse isk/hour than mining in empire because of aforementioned mineral prices

Belt composition (total isk value of a belt) and actually getting the ore to market (isk/hour) are two different things. Also, highsec gets a 25%+ bonus on compressed ore value by getting it to Jita; shipping out of 0.0 has a significant cost.

I can "infinitely respawn" our ore anomalies, does that mean that they make me "infinitely" more Isk/hr than hisec?

Sitting in a ship with a scanner is different than actually mining out an asteroid belt with a miner- the fact that anyone even suggests mining asteroid belts in null is laughable.

Hmmm .. risk multi-billion isk freighters hauling Ore to Jita

Nope ... sorry ... not happening.

Really, please stop trying to argue a side that you have no knowledge on- you clearly are out of your element. We have a gigantic surplus of high end ores, that is the issue.

Counting down until the thread gets locked because of all the grrgoon and lack of general intelligence in the opposing arguments.

Related to compression- actually making compression easier for the layman makes it safer for them to get their compressed ore to the market via blockade runners! Praise be the benevolent Goons for suggesting that we make it harder to gank ore shipments!

This is a serious question:

How is our proposal to make compression more accessible an "attack" on High Sec game play? So far, the only rebuttals that have been presented are "nullsec has more low end ore" and "it is fine as is because I'm making a xx% profit margin".

I would like to see the higher yield variants rolled into a base compressed type though. Just to simplify the whole process.